Ya Can’t Always Get What Ya Want

QUICK NOTE:  When the most recent researcher traveled to HI to view the index data, she DID ask for a copy when she returned the index book to he desk, but she was refused.  She assumed it was because she may have been too specific in her request.  But the response was a curt “No”, no explanation given about why.  The image of the index data page is actually NOT from a phone or camera, but from a different device that I, myself, provided to the researcher.  We are holding that info for a little longer, until we complete the next phase of this work.  I have the original device and all records placed with a lawyer, and copies are with several trusted individuals.  I, and several others, have absolute proof that this trip went as stated in this post.  Just for a quick example, where else have you seen the image of the index book page with obama’s highlighted data?  Please leave a link to any blog or news outlet that posted it BEFORE THIS BLOG DID.  Thank you.

AND>>>I do have proof that she asked for the copy and was refused.  I have ABSOLUTE  proof.

This post is about the most recent attempt to verify, or rather, chase down some loose ends and solve a few of the smaller conundrums possibly connected to this whole obama birth controversy.  While I cannot go into as great detail as I would like due to some ongoing research by others involved, I can give you a look into the work being done.

Lets start with TsunamiGeno.  He’s the trusted old friend that I convinced to go to Honolulu on a data collection trip months ago.  Here’s the kicker, he didn’t know what I wanted, who it was connected to, or why I wanted it…..until the day before the trip commenced.  Oh, he knew I wanted lots of copies from microfilms from two libraries, he knew that I might have him pop round to the vital stats office to look up a record or two.  He just didn’t know whose record.

I took a chance that he wouldn’t be a major fan of obama, and I took the chance that if he was, he wouldn’t back out of the trip at the last minute.  After all, nothing that I was asking him to do was restricted in any way to the public.  I just didn’t know if he’d be pissed.

So, I sent him most of the stuff last minute, and a few minutes later the phone rang and I winced.

He didn’t even say “hello”, just,  ‘ “This about obama?”  So of course I replied, “Kinda, but not really”.

I know…great answer wasn’t it?

So, as you know he did make the trip, he did collect the copies.  He also did a little time in the DoH.  That’s the Department of Health.  I didn’t talk about that part before because he had an experience there that I didn’t feel it would be responsible to relate until I had a chance to see if it was repeated.  But trips to Honolulu are not cheap, nor is it easy to find willing intrepid amateur “PI’s” that one can trust, to spend their time in HI running around collecting a bunch of “boring” info.

Here is what he related to me about his foray into the DoH:

“In the second assignment I was requested to inspect the four Birth Data Index types.  (General, Late/delayed, Foreign, Hawaiian)  and get supporting documentation.  The department is in an older building that probably was a hospital at one time.  The receptionist told me to knock on the record door, which I did and a young lady responded. I explained  what I was requesting and she immediately said that she would get the supervisor.  She came back and told me to go next door and see the supervisor Jesse (did not get last name). This office was extremely crowded with about 50 – 65 people in line for marriages, birth and death certificates.  Fortunately, Jesse motioned for me to approach the second window upon entering and gave me a form to fill out requesting the indexes.  I requested each index separately (total of four) for the year 1961. Jesse said the only one he had was the index to General Births and had no knowledge of the other three.  He handed me the index and said, “You are looking for Obama, got to be in there”, I told him his name was one among many  which I was researching.  The index itself was for the period of 1960 through 1964 and only showed the name and the gender and did not even show actual birth date.  It also was computerized and looked to be laser printed.  The only name (of the ones I was given to search for) that showed on this index was Norman Asing (M).  There also were about 6 females with the last name Asing shown.  There were no other names shown from the list you gave me including any Obamas. When finished with the index, I asked Jesse if I could get any supporting documentation including copies or a certified copy on the name I did find.  He said,  “No, is not available to the general public.”  I asked him for a blank COLB from and said, “No, could be counterfeited if a blank copy is given.”  I asked him the last question of what’s the difference between “Filed by Registrar” and  “Accepted by Registrar”.   He said that nobody has ever asked that question and he did not know.  I felt like the time I was there, it was extremely difficult in talking with Jesse, due to crowd of people, plus himself working with those folks as well as me.    I left with an  unfavorable opinion of the department and their supervisor.”

This sentence was also very important to me:

“Jesse said the only one he had was the index to General Births and had no knowledge of the other three. “

Now, most of us following and researching the very historic obama birth controversy, will know that this statement made by Jesse of the Hawaii Department of Health is quite puzzling.  I can only SHOW an example of the index for the Hawaiian birth, and what is purported to be the General birth index.

Here is a rough copy of the “Hawaiian Birth Index”  This was provided to The Post & Email sometime back and appeared in an article that they did.


Here is what you are given when you request the General Index Data book for births at the Department of Health in Honolulu, this is an actual image of the book in the DoH.

The “wavyness” of the image is simply due to the way the page was imaged.  Just click on the image, the larger size is clearer.

As you can see, obama is listed in the book on the day that this was viewed.  When TsunamiGeno looked at the book, back in March, he claimed that when he first was unable to locate the name he was surprised, so attempted several more times to locate it and was still unable to find it in the book given to him that day. He didn’t ask Jesse the supervisor about it when he returned the book, he didn’t want to call too much attention to himself.  I wondered at that time if perhaps some impish staffer wanted to keep the birthers guessing, and so somehow removed that part of the index.  I decided not to publish that info because I had no hard proof.

This trip was something I was determined to do because I wanted to see if the obama name was or was not in the index book.  I wanted to know if the DoH would again claim that they only have a “General Birth Index”, and if they would refuse to make a copy of an index entry.

Most importantly I wanted real proof, and I doubted it would just be handed over.  So, I equipped “The Interrogator” with a couple of little gizmos to insure that we could secure that proof.  [temporarily redacted]  I even customized a “executive bag” to enable these tools to be carried covertly. So, now we do have proof that the DoH claims that they only have a General Birth Index, and refused to provide a copy of a entry in that index data book.

One interesting thing happened unplanned though, in that when The Interrogator took the index book back to the counter, they asked the staff person to point out the obama entry (this had been a special request from me) and the staffer took the entire page from the book wherein obama appears and brought it over to them at the counter, rather than just bring back the book.  No, that is not when the imaged page above was copied.  But it does demonstrate that an individual page can be handily removed and, perhaps, set aside. AND demonstrates that it only takes a staffer seconds to remove a page, and is quite clearly not against their regulations to do so.

The Interrogator was able to make copies of the Polk directories and 1960’s phone books that I requested.  Those will be up soon.  [redacted part of this info :)]

The thing with this recent trip though is that the person going wasn’t an old buddy of mine.  I wasn’t picking up the entire tab.  The agenda was not primarily my own.  So, I am quite restricted in writing as I don’t want to tread in forbidden territory.  The parties involved had to come to an agreement as to what can be discussed now.  I’ll be honest here and tell you all that we did not stumble onto any smoking gun.  Of course you always hope it’ll be so easy, but usually doesn’t work out like that, does it?

Yes, we did get proof of a few things, and found a thing or two by accident that are quite out of the ordinary, but I have agreed to only post about the things that I personally commissioned.  All’s fair.

Link to some info (old stuff) on the birth certifications at the DoH in Hawaii.

http://gen.doh.hawaii.gov/sites/har/AdmRules1/8%208A%20B%20VR%20Admin%20Rules.pdf

So, the other interested parties are following up (this topic of obama’s birth) in some new directions.  Nothing I can divulge here though.  I will continue to assist however I can.

Here are some Polk scans.  Not sure if anything here is of use, but thought some may find them interesting.  The quality is due to the way these were imaged.  The Honolulu State Library copier was out of order that day, so a different method was used to copy these.


I HAVE DIRECTLY SHARED COPIES AND PDF’S OF MY RESEARCH WITH OTHERS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN DOING THEIR OWN RESEARCH, THEIR CONCLUSIONS AND OR I DO NOT ENDORSE ANY CLAIMS MADE BY ANY OTHER PERSON/PERSONS IF THOSE “CLAIMS” ARE NOT INCLUDED IN MY OWN WORDS WITH ANY AND ALL  RESEARCH WORK PRESENTED IN THIS BLOG.

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~ by ladysforest on July 27, 2010.

19 Responses to “Ya Can’t Always Get What Ya Want”

  1. lf, hi. well you really need to start a fund for all your travels. It appears that either a page was removed or documents have been changed to include the one’s name. which do you think? well both your friend and the post&email turned up a negative and the interregator turned up a positive. really the bottom line is that there is no integrity at the DoH. sad really, seems as if the people at the counter werent really interested in covering up anything and i wonder if the truth will come out as to what was going on at the Doh in the past two years. will you post links to the other investigators? is there any way to expand on the types of indexes? there must be more than the general index according to their procedures.

    • Hi tdr,
      I suspect that we are being subjected to the ‘ole “Gaslight” treatment.
      I am not at liberty to disclose any info on the other researchers at this point, I’m sorry. I will continue to offer any assistance that I can though.
      I am unable to easily find the DoH info on the different types of birth registrations/certifications NOW, but did find something on the official end that I will post a link to at the bottom of the post. It’s very lengthy, but mentions birth certifications other than the “general”. I guess the DoH website has been “revised” yet again, as when I checked it back when my buddy first went, that info was on the Doh website, and was very easy to find.

    • tdr-
      read the post again, I was just given the green light to add a bit.

  2. […] https://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/ya-cant-always-get-what-ya-want/ […]

  3. Hey, ladysforest, this news about them taking the page out of the index book means they could be fudging everything they’ve ever given us. Man, that ticks me off. I thought the books were bound. And their refusal – at either point – to allow copies is a direct violation of OIP policy, which says that the right to inspect includes the right to copy.

    These people are so lawless it would be funny if it wasn’t so serious. They could be putting different pages in that book every day of the week.

    I wonder exactly how the book got Obama’s name in it the 2nd time around, when it wasn’t there the first time. Did they add DELAYED birth certificates to the general index, or did they just add the name out of the blue with no reason needed since nobody can get any answers from them anyway?

    Do you suppose they could just switch a person from the 1970-74 index book to the 1960-64 index book on a whim, just like they moved around Obama’s name on a whim?

    • I honestly don’t think they’d move a name from a decade out to the 1960-1964 book.
      But I do absolutely trust that what TsunamiGeno told me happened-really did happen. I could tell from his voice, because he was actually quite shaken by it, and that was indisputable. I’ve know that dude for 20 plus years, he was my very best friend and confidant for much of that time, but we never talked politics since the early 80’s. When he told me that story, you could hear in his voice that he was stunned-straight up honestly.
      I wonder if they (HI) have combined some of the other types of certs all under “General” index? Hard to know without knowing the actual number of births during that time-span.
      I can NOT say for certain that obama’s name was not in that index book back in March-I have no hard proof. But do I trust what my buddy said? Hell yes.
      I just had no proof-hence this latest venture. It does not support TsunamiGenos finding, but did demonstrate that it only took a staffer seconds to remove a page, and is quite clearly not against their regulations to do so.

      • I’m a little confused. When the second investigator asked DoH staff to point out Obama’s name, did your investigator first see the name in the book, then take the book back to the desk and ask the clerk to point out the name?

        And then, did the investigator actually see the clerk take the page out of the book, or did he or she assume that’s what happened, when the clerk came back with only one page?

        I’m also confused about the sequence of events. You’re saying that in March, TsunamiGeno saw NO Obama entry in the “general birth index” but by the time the second investigator arrived, the name was in the “general birth index”, whatever that is?

        But the image above was not taken by either investigator? Did the second investigator take any images at the DoH of the birth index? Where did the image above, with Obama’s name on it, come from?

        Are you saying that you have audio of DoH staff telling the investigator that there is only one birth index and them refusing to allow copies of the index? If so, great, because you can prove they don’t follow their own rules.

        The Hawaiian Birth Index, which you also show above, says “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” on it. Obama would not and should not appear on that index because, supposedly, he is NOT a Native Hawaiian (meaning of Hawaiian ancestry). He’s supposed to be descended from an African father and a white American mother. You probably know this, but some readers may not. So this alone proves there is another type of index kept at the DoH.

        With regard to Obama’s name being/not being in the general birth index, there could be several possible explanations:

        TsunamiGeno didn’t see Obama in the index because he missed it somehow–turned two pages at once or just had a brain freeze and didn’t see the name while scanning for it.

        Did he look for Steve Dunham? 🙂

        Or the clerk took that page out of the index before giving it to TsunamiGeno, for some unknown reason. Possibilities include playing tricks on “birthers” or maybe the page was out because someone else was making a copy in response to a UIPA request. Did TsunamiGeno make note of the names on the index either side of where Obama’s name SHOULD HAVE BEEN?

        Or Obama’s name truly wasn’t there on the index in March (can you give an approximate date?) but it is there now (again, can you give an approximate date?).

        So why is it there now? And how did it get there?

        Did he amend his BC information between TsunamiGeno’s visit and the visit by the second investigator, which caused his name to show up in the general birth index under “Obama”?

        Or did they suddenly decide to combine all indices into one comprehensive list, so they didn’t have to give away whatever type of list his name was on?

        Did either investigator, by chance, get the date that each list was printed? That should have been on the printout. If not, they have a very shabby system.

        One has to wonder: Of what use is an index that comprises 5 years and which contains only names and sex?

        There’s another possibility (and this is only speculation) that might explain the ease with which pages go in and come out of that index. There’s THE “real, true, accurate, official index”, which perhaps, in its normal state, is the one that TsunamiGeno saw. No Obama.

        And then there’s the version that they let visitors see, but NOT copy. They insert Obama’s page when somebody wants to see the book (why do citizens have to first check in with a supervisor?). Voila! There’s his name and “proof” of his birth, but they won’t let the citizen COPY the page. Why not? Because that page isn’t part of the authentic birth index and to let people copy it would be, in essence, having the DoH vouch for its accuracy?

        So, in this hypothetical scenario, when the visitor leaves, they take out the Obama page and put back into the book the original page, sans Obama.

        Could the clerk have been in the process of “fixing” the book when your investigator asked to have Obama’s name pointed out, which might explain why the page was no longer in the book, and why the clerk presented a loose page?

        As with everything Obama, getting answers to any question merely leads to more questions and more confusion.

        I’m looking forward to more information and for links to reports by the other “interested parties. “If any.” 🙂

        Thanks for all your hard work.

        • OK Sirius, I will try to answer your questions. As usual, my writing “style” leaves a lot to be desired.

          To the first question, I had asked The I. specifically to ask the clerk to point out obama’s name, regardless of if they found it in the index book or not. The image that you see in this post is of the index entry for obama and was obtained BEFORE the book was returned to the counter. So yes, it was taken by The I. The Interrogator did see the clerk remove the page from the book. TusnamiGeno was unable to find obama’s name in the index data book, it was in the book when it this image was obtained recently-that’s one reason I sent gadgets along, to know for a fact, indisputably, what was there and what would happen this time. TsunamiGeno was stunned at not finding the name, he fully expected it to be there, and so checked and rechecked.
          My best guess as to why it was not there, and then it was, is it may be to “Gaslight” the birthers. Nice way to discredit a researcher, and very easy to do-as we just found out.
          Yes, Steve Dunham is another name they both searched for, was not there.
          Other parties that I am still working with have asked that certain info and new research be kept quiet for now.

  4. One other thing also – and this one’s just private, I guess. That index book [redacted balance of entry]

  5. Which Government Organization Was The First To Say, “Obama was born in Hawaii”?

    Most people would answer, “The Hawaii State Department of Health”?

    Sorry, that answer is not a winner.

  6. […] amount needed  is very reasonable, but my own expenditures on the most recent excursion [https://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/ya-cant-always-get-what-ya-want]  that I (in part) commissioned,  left me unable to personally give as generously as I would […]

  7. […] https://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/ya-cant-always-get-what-ya-want […]

  8. […] https://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/ya-cant-always-get-what-ya-want/:https://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/graphs-and-stats/ […]

  9. Found it!

    This is the scribed document I was referring to in the first response.

    It is easier to read and the Application to Amend your Passport appears to be the original due to color and markings, etc.

    It only creates more questions rather than providing answers.

  10. […] https://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/ya-cant-always-get-what-ya-want/ https://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/graphs-and-stats/                                                                     https://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2010/06/09/wheres-sherlock-holmes-when-you-need-him/ […]

  11. […] https://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/ya-cant-always-get-what-ya-want/ https://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/graphs-and-stats/                                                                     https://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2010/06/09/wheres-sherlock-holmes-when-you-need-him/ […]

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